More Than A Minivan Mom gently called me out a couple of days ago. She suspected that my meme rule bucking had as much to do with diplomacy as rebellion. In the case of my last post, I'm going to stick by my rebellious guns because I really couldn't pick just ten blogging women to invite to a party. I am in love with way more of you than that and when it comes to parties, the more the merrier. But, in general, she's got me pegged. I am a stay-between-the lines, people-pleasing, fearing-of-authority, rule-follower-of-the-rule-followiest sort. Suggesting that I am a rebel was, ah, one might say untrue, but I like to think of it as artistic license.
By way of apology for painting myself in a slightly false light, I'm going to confess a sin (pun totally intended) that's been on my mind a bit lately. I do fear and respect authority. I have a deep attachment to the order that the state and its necessary governmental institutions provide. I find it hard to question things presented as official, although I force myself to do it. I'm not a natural doubter. Except in the highest sense of it all. The ultimate authority. The cosmic rules, as some have laid them down, don't appeal to me. Those, I question, I find lacking and I reject. I do not believe in God in the traditional Western sense.
I have spiritual beliefs. I accept the existence of a higher power, for lack of a better term, that some call God. I prefer to think of it as the Powerful Force in the Universe for Order Instead of Chaos (PFUOIC). I don't have any belief in the rules humans ascribe to it. I don't believe it smites or bestows. I simply cannot live in a reality where a supreme force targets people for good and bad. I think it just is and we just are. I also believe that if you focus on order and harmony instead of chaos and disharmony, you can occasionally get things aligned just right, so that you are emitting the same note as the stars and the galaxies and the bees. That rightness resonates with PFUOIC somehow and strengthens it.
I'm at peace with my own conclusions on this question. My husband views religion and God through a far more traditional Christian lens and I am at peace with that too. Every once in a while, though, my marginally Christian ham-eating husband wants to go to church. Normally, I'm too lazy to make such effort, because I strongly believe that PFUOIC has no preference for where I sit as I work on greater harmony. Church, the kitchen table without a bra, it's all the same to PFUOIC.
I go to church when Matt wants to go. I don't mind going as a family. I will certainly talk openly with my children about my own beliefs when they are ready, but hopefully not in a way that disparages others' beliefs. When we step over the threshold, my rule-following guilt-secreting glands kick in and I feel insanely criminal for being there, hugging the sweeter-than-sweet pastor and nodding and smiling, all the while lying. If my mere presence somewhere can constitute lying. I don't pretend to believe, I'm just rarely asked.
The truth is, my guilt is deeper than that. I love church. My reasons just aren't exactly pure. Want to know why? (Let me climb under my desk and whisper just in case I am wrong, which would cosmically SUCK for me because my universal karma is then really, really off.) The nursery. At church, there is a nursery filled with lovely toys, run by a delightful, nurturing, earth-mother-kind woman. The church people not only allow me to leave my three children there, they encourage it. For two hours. For free. They are eager for me to do it and consider watching my children a small price for getting my unrepentant, damned-to-eternal-unhappiness soul into a pew. All I have to do in return is sit quietly BY MYSELF on a bench and contemplate how to be a better person and how to align myself more harmoniously with PFUOIC, whom they call G-O-D or sometimes the son of G-O-D.
It seems too good to be true. Of course, it is. My fear of authority spoils it for me a little. I spend some time contemplating a judgmental lightning bolt from the blue as I exit. But overall, it's a little piece of heaven, which is a pretty funny coincidence. If they would allow Starbucks chai tea inside the sanctuary, I would go every Sunday. Confession over. Anyone offering absolution?
Saturday, August 16, 2008
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
crop.jpg)
44 comments:
Sounds heavenly. I go to the gym for the same reason. But it costs me $5 per kid and I have to work out.
Church sounds like a better option. Maybe I will re-discover my faith.
Too funny, your post and mama ginger tree's comment, too!
We have somewhat similar beliefs, AnyMommy. Maybe we should start our own religion, and we should have church - with nursery and a Starbucks inside- EVERY day!
I am in. MGT, you and I can be the founding mothers. I would be a devout believer.
well, now you're totally kicked out of my cool club list - you little sinner. :)
We've only recently started taking DD to our church's nursery. I forgot what it's like to actually hear the sermon (I'm sure our pew mates appreciate it too).
Yup, like MGT I go to the gym...I'm fairly certain that I wouls be struck by lightning in the parking lot of church. Weddings and funerals are sketchy for me.
I have similar beliefs, I believe in a higher power, but I don't think that he/she/it minds where I celebrate him/her/it.
I'm one of the gym-going, drop-in day care using mamas, too. I get this small feeling of elation as I walk away from the child care room, but then I see the treadmill and reality sets in.
My blog confession on religion is here:
http://pennycarnival.typepad.com/penny_carnival/2008/07/my-husband-has.html
Hmm. Well, you're still doing better than me. I haven't been to church with my family yet. And though I did spend two months about 6 months back going to an evening "Christian" service, I had difficulty with the whole Bible bit.
My beliefs are far from absolute, but I think perhaps they've got this God character all wrong. I think it's simpler than it's made out to be. Just be nice, do the best you can at being good, help when you can, and live life. Yeah? Because that's the only way it makes sense to live.
I think you should drop your kids off at Church daycare then sneak out the back door so you can go out for a civilized brunch. So yeah - I'm not judging you.
I like your view on things (especially with the Starbucks) but my 12 years of Catholic schooling makes it hard to let go of the belief in church as an institution.
But those same 12 years of schooling seem to make it fine for our family to go to the Church of the Brunch on Sundays instead.
I think I just have to have the building there for me when I am ready to go, otherwise I am fine believing and being all by myself.
Kate it seems great minds think alike.
you mean I'm NOT supposed to take my Starbucks to church??? THAT'S why all the little old ladies look at me funny. huh. And I thought they were admiring my clothes.
"let he who is without sin cast the...." or something like that.
p.s It was me- vodkamom, not anonymous. Why did it say that???
well, i'm really sad that you don't believe *the exact same thing* i believe! ;)
i guess i should be tempted to explain it all so that you'll "come around," but i'm sure you've come to your conclusions after examining all the evidence just like i did (although we came to different conclusions).
on a selfish note, i hope you write more about this - i love people's "back stories" - how they came to believe what they believe, how they met/fell in love with their spouses, how they decided on their children's names, etc.
Uh, anymommy, you realize they've got your spawn singing church songs, learning Bible verses, making crosses out of popsicle sticks, and watching Veggie Tales in those nurseries, right? I mean, are you sure it's worth it!?!?!?!?! *gasp*
So church is like a retreat for Mommies?
Cool. I'm still not going and you can't make me.....
Ah, commenter's after my own heart. I have to admit I feared a little smiting, damned for eternity talk after I hit publish.
So, the gym is what you're telling me. Do you actually have to work out or could you maybe just sit on a bench in the work out room and read a book. While drinking SB. I'm just asking.
Imommy - I think when we move much beyond those basics we start getting ourselves into trouble. And, by trouble I mean hatred for and discrimination against others, which is where a lot of organized faiths end up, in my mind.
Kate - I think I love you.
Meredith - I love backstories too. Especially births! Thanks to all of you who wrote birth posts after I begged. Those are all excellent questions. You've got my post wheels turning.
Ryan - Not yet! I've checked, I've watched. This is the baby nursrey. I've got one more year before the indoctrination effort begins.
Connie - I can't say that I blame you. There's a bit of tuning out to do.
Oh my husband SO agrees with you... he is no fan of organized religion. I too am no fan either - though it's really easy to avoid the whole "church" thing here as
1) we're Jewish and
2) I don't even think there's a synagogue anywhere near us here in India.
Sadly, there's no Starbucks either.
I am along the same lines as you. I have no problem explaining different religious ideas to my kids, but they know, early on, that I fully believe that there is no ONE "right" religion. That religious rules started out as lovely ideas, thousands of years ago, and were convoluted and changed to fit into mankind's society.
I feel most at one with the universe's energy when the breeze is on my skin and the sun is on my face. When I have moments of peace and feel that THIS MOMENT is what it's all about...
I wrote a post recently where a man worried about my "Buddhist" tendencies. That I was detached from my children and life. :) I kindly told him that it was only by grasping life's impermanence that I could appreciate the beauty fully.
Stacey I completely get where you are coming from. I try and let my kids explore aspects of all religions so that when they want to they can decide on their own what they want to do. My oldest has been to Catholic churches, christian churches, he's listened to my brother talk about being Tao and me being pagan.
I always bucked the idea that you had to be in a building to pray and speak with whatever higher being you believe in. Like you said I can do the same thing sitting in my pjs. If you want to read about a really funny religion that is like that...google the Flying Spaghetti Monster...
I am a Christian, but so far I haven't found a church that believes the same way I do. So, just like my parents before me, I "practice" my faith at home.
My parents fully believe that it is up to each person to find the faith that is meant for them. They bought us books about the world's religions and supported us as we experimented. It's what I want for my children, too.
We don't go to church because, as much as I've chosen Christianity as MY faith, I don't want my kids to be told Jesus is the ONLY WAY, even though that's what the bible says.
Here's what's great about the gym nursery: I get a trash magazine and do the recumbent bike. It's low-impact, I can totally read, and afterward I actually exercised! Yee-haw!
I'm beginning to think that people like you more than they like me. Because you write this post and everyone's all nice and non-judgmental. I write a similar post and get told in no uncertain terms that I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity (by a "friend").
What's up with that?!
Oh...amen, btw. Maybe we could go to "church" together in DC. :0)
I absolve you. Yes. I can do that. You're welcome.
(But: Jewish and sarcastic here, so...maybe a backup plan would be wise, just in case.)
my confession...I sneak starbucks into church...
my other confession...although I beleive, I don't really enjoy church people...I go, I listen, my soul gets fed...but there are very few people I want to get to know..I'm too imperfect and church people seem so very perfect, I'd be afraid I say something wrong (ie, too liberal) or laugh at somehting inappropriate...(oh almost every service, I have to do the look around thing only to realize I'm the only one who found humor in whatever the pastor was saying---ooops....)
such is life....I'm okay with it.
Is anyone playing a guitar? You have to tell them to get someone with a guitar. Once they've got the guy with a guitar, you're close to getting everyone in with Starbucks.
Yes, I love the nursery. Sing it loud, sing it proud. I have a relationship with God, but I know all too well how "Christianity" can be viewed by the world, how Christians can appear all too judgmental, hypocritical, holier-than-thou, you name it, and I know how many different skewed versions of God there are out there, some damning, some all-embracing, etc. And I don't think there is a church out there that can claim to be perfect by any means, so I've learned not to put too many unrealistic expectations on the church where I choose to worship. But I believe that God loves you just the same, even if you just show up to church to relish in the nursery and enjoy a little quiet time away from the kiddos. ;)
And I love how thought-provoking your blog posts are, so keep it up.
I'm totally with you on your thoughts about PFUOIC (except I still call it/he/she God). My dad is a minister, and I have a whole lot of history that has led me to some hang-ups with organized religion. Perhaps my main issue is that I think God gets put in box (metaphorically speaking) that's formed with definitions and descriptions that just end up limiting the very greatness of God. And then somewhere, amidst all the rules and definitions of what is a sin, the bigger message of love, peace, harmony and forgiveness gets lost all too often. Don't even get me started on church "politics," the pressure to join committees and small groups, and the gossiping and hurtfulness that goes on behind the scenes. Sigh.
We haven't attended church since J was born due to all of her medical issues and the fact that church (and the nursery) is a huge germ haven. Now that J's doing better, we have to decide how we want to handle her religious education.
Huge kudos to you for having the courage to blog about your beliefs in a world that's often quick to judge.
BTW, Hubby and I have joked about dropping J off at the nursery and then going OUT for SB!! (WE WERE TOTALLY KIDDING ANY CPS PEOPLE READING THIS!!)
I've said they should add SB to churches for years, so you've got my vote on that one!
You all make me think. First, I love the people that visit here. Differing opinions and faiths stated simply and respectfully, no one yelling or judging or damning anyone to anything horrid. Thank you! Religion is a tough subject sometimes and we are handling it with grace. Pats our backs.
Tracey and Jessi and Andrea - I feel the same. I want my kids to understand all faiths. I want them to understand why there are different ways of looking at the same concept and how different people need to understand 'god' in different ways. But, I do worry about them ending up with nothing. Do you know what I mean. I have a strong faith, it's just hard to put into words. I don't want them to reject everything, or to blindly follow an organized faith because they are attracted to the structure that I lack. Sigh. I worry about these things. I mostly want them to understand that every faith is right, when it's used compassionately towards a higher understanding of the universe and our purpose and every faith is wrong when it's warped into hating people that don't believe exactly the same things, or even just thinking that they are doomed to less in some kind of afterlife. Because that is the precusor to thinking of some people as less in this life. Does any of this bother you?
AMomTwoBoys - I was braced for it. The commenters have been awesome. I think my reach is also a lot smaller than yours!
Mam - Thank you. From your fellow sarcastic, sort of Jew (by upbringing anyway).
TZ - Awesome. PFUOIC loves ingenuity.
TZ and Valerie - More seriously, that is a major issue I've always had with church. Some people seem to think that just showing up makes you above others in some way, 'a good person.' I've met incredibly good people and incredibly bad people of all faiths. GOING isn't the important criteria. If that were the case, I would be golden, which, ahem, isn't quite the way things are.
Psychmama - Uh huh. I'm nodding. The problem, I think, is that organized religion is run by humans. And, you know, we manage to convolute things and mess them up a lot. We get things wrong. And then, give us a little authority, tell us we are following the word of 'god.' Yikes.
I feel compelled to list some points of universal agreement. In case PFUOIC (or possibly my neighborhood church) is listening.
1) Churches should have SB in them. Or at the very least, SB should be allowed in church. (If guitars of any kind would expediate this improvement, I'm all for them.)
2) Once a month, parents should be able to just drop their kids at the nursery and leave. Without guilt. It ought to be in the bible/torah/rules somewhere. Possibly the ten commandments. Please add.
3) I should join a gym. With childcare.
I'm with Kate, except that 2 hours is JUST enough time to sneak out and catch a movie. That's where I'd be.
From now on are you going to refer to your husband as "My ham-eating husband?" Because I think you should.
No absolution needed from this quarter. I'd never pinned an acronym on PFUOIC, but yeah, that's me too.
I'll go to church when I have to, though I don't particularly enjoy it (no kids = no nursery = no secret thrill), but I also don't worry much about lying by being there or being struck by lightning. Kind of doesn't go with my lack of belief system. :-)
We just recently started a church service where coffee and snacks are totally permitted in the sanctuary. There's lots of kids there, too, but you could leave yours in the nursery.
Thanks for the 'confession.' But forget the guilt - the 'son of G' died on the cross so that we don't have to. As a professional church person (non-ordained), I appreciate insight into how people think and experience church.
Now I've gone a re-read all the posts, I want to add-
the problem w/ dropping off kids and sneaking out is that the church couldn't find you if - don't-even-think-it -- there were an emergency with your child.
thanks again for the great discussion.
But wait isn't Starbucks a church? I have always been enamored by the churches that have a nursery. I grew up Catholic and we were toted to the pews shortly after our births. No crying rooms, no breaks for moms, the learning started asap.
Can I request your church serve something other than tazo chai, it's my least favorite. If so, I am in.
I'd go in a church and I have, many types, but I always end up annoyed with the dogmatic talks. I guess my beliefs haven't found a place yet. At least not one within four walls. Now a church of life, on the beach with a Latte....my kind of church.
I'm probably going to be in the minority for saying this, but I'm not sure how anybody doesn't believe in God after giving birth. It is such a beautiful and meaningful experience that some higher power has to be involved. For me that is God. My children are such a blessing that I will always be thankful to God for the honor to be their mother. I also believe that Christianity is designed to make you think and sometimes make you feel a little uncomfortable or question what you are hearing. Maybe the uneasy feeling that some of you are having is God's way of saying that it's ok to question what you are thinking. God isn't perfect. Religion isn't perfect.
Well now it's official. We simply *must* be best friends.
I'm not sure how far back in my blog you've read (or how long you've been following me) but I have often blogged about my problems with religion and my spiritual beliefs, AND my quest (especially in Texas) to raise my children without the Christian indoctrination. And honestly? I think I'm doing a great job. I never want to disparage any religion to my children, and my son (the precocious 8 year old) is the first one to say "well, MAYBE that's true, but we don't really know. But maybe you're right! But maybe you're not" to his classmates and friends. We've had several instances where classmates (at recess. For some reason they talk Jesus at recess here in Texas. Don't ask) have become very insistent and vehement with him that he "must" believe in God and the Bible and Jesus or else he is going to Hell. It's interesting. Fortunately, we have discussed it so much that he's comfortable saying "well, I don't believe that, but I understand that you do"
He's a pretty cool 8 year old, I think.
Anyway, we go to Unitarian services, because I want to raise my children with an appreciation and understanding for major religions, and I want to encourage that spiritual reflection and quest, without indoctrinating. I love UU for that.
Love this post, love you!
The tone of these comments is awesome. Respectful and not demeaning. Thank you!
Quart - I think I will. It has a nice ring to it.
Maura - good point. I'm such a lawyer, covering all my bases.
Eat, Play, Love - I think we're going for a full SB. Your choice of beverages. Dream big.
Issas - Exactly the setting I prefer.
Laura - Thanks for participating - I know it's hard when your views differ from the poster. I guess one of the downsides of not being a Christian is that I don't have that out. My guilt is my own. I don't feel guilty for not believing, I think that is completely up to the individual and I don't think PFUOIC cares about belief systems. I feel some guilt for taking advantage of the services the church provides since I am not supportive of many key aspects of the overall message. Like for instance that people can be absolved of wrongs or guilt by professing to certain beliefs. That doesn't work for me.
Anon - Thanks for joining in. Discussions are boring if everyone agrees. For me, the issue with what you say (and with Christianity in general) is that you seem to define God so narrowly. Maybe I am reading your comment wrong, and if so I apologize. I don't think belief in God means only belief in the Christian view of God and Jesus. If you read these comments again, all of these mothers (and the ones that aren't mothers) have a belief system. Many write about being moved to explore it further by motherhood. They just don't have a Christian belief system. That is in a nutshell, is why Christianity (and other Western religions) don't work for me. There's no getting around the doctrine that if you don't believe in the Father and the Son, you are godless. I can't accept that.
MinivanMom - Um, yeah, a very cool eight year old. I hope to bring my kids up so that they are that knowledgable and deliberate. I've been to our local Univeralist service and I liked it a lot. The congregation isn't as solid here as I would like, but it's growing.
I'll jump in one more time...
Some Christians believe that theirs in the only way. Others (like me) believe that Jesus died for us, whether one believes or not. I don't believe anyone is godless, just because they don't buy Jesus. And there are Christians who'd condemn me for that.
The tricky part is finding the church (or organization) that can help you do your exploring. If it's a group of like-minded people on the internet (or at SB) - great! The point is to be in the discussion.
I echo your appreciation of the respectfulness of others shown on this thread.
Okay, Any, I'm late to the party but what the hell. I love MinMom's perspective on Texas, because it is so true. I grew up here, so life without religion (specifically Christianity) is almost non-existent. My Christian faith is a very important part of my life, and for me, an important part of that is corporate worship (ie...church). Church is a place where I get the help I need to focus on God and where I learn the stuff I need in order to live my life without going insane. (And yes, we have a guitar-playing guy AND they actually serve Starbucks.)
HOWEVER...that is just me. I am bothered by the "playground Jesus talk" that MinMom refers to. We've seen that too many times to count. I don't think it's my business (or my child's) to try to talk others into our personal belief system. I do think it's my business to LOVE God (or Puh-foo-oh-ic) and LOVE people. Beyond that, I believe God will do whatever He/She wants to do.
One of the things I love best about blogging is that it enables me to hang with people that I would probably never find down here in Tejas. For every MinMom (or Any, etc.) there are 100 girls who will tell you you're going to hell. I am so grateful for y'all!!
Okay, that's probably enough of a response to last awhile. Happy Wednesday!!
No absolution needed. You are spot on if you ask me.
All those rules and regs made by man really f-ed up the whole God thing. We need to take it back to basics.
I loved your thought about working towards the harmony - I'm stealing that one. Which by conventional religious standards would be breaking a commandment, but I think PFUOIC will cut me some slack, eh?
Wow. Two hours? Now that's impressive. I was unhappy with the church we HAD been going to and their 1:20+ mass. My bargain since a child was 59 minutes 59 seconds. New church? way less than an hour. Probably due to hte fact that it's a small country church with fewer than 70 people at every mass I've attended so far. Oh and yes, a lovely nursery that the wee ones love. I SO get that. No guilt. It's all good. It refreshes you so you can be a better mommy later, right?
Katy - Thanks for commenting. I love your perspective. I think the message of Christianity (which is lovely) is at its best within people like you, who remain open to other views and respectful of them. Actually, I think that's true of all faiths, organized or otherwise.
Amy - Yeah, since I think I 'stole' that from Buddha and probably countless others, I think you are probably good ;-)
Michelle - Right! And that is important, spiritually and otherwise.
Post a Comment